What Preachers Wrestle With Always Comes Out in their Sermons

Posted On
02/15/2009

What Preachers Wrestle With Always Comes Out in their Sermons

A very interesting thing I remember about Jimmy Swaggart’s fall from grace nearly 20 years ago was that for years he had been preaching about sexual sin. Not occasionally, but in reviewing his catalog of sermon tapes from the time, it was a lot. I met Jim Bakker one time before his crash, and guess what he wanted to talk about? You guessed it – sexual stuff. He laughed and didn’t seem the least bit concerned.

It wasn’t long before the Jessica Hahn revelations surfaced.

More recently, our company considered working with a successful pastor in Europe. Whenever I would meet with him, all he wanted to talk about was his “beautiful family.” It was almost obsessive, and he would always point out how great his wife looked, and how important sex was to their life. I thought it a bit weird at the time.

A few months later, he was arrested for having sex with multiple women in his congregation.

After the recent HBO documentary about the two years since Ted Haggard’s fall from grace, Patton Dodd, Haggard’s writer and editor at New Life Church for eight years, mentioned two particular sermons that Ted preached over and over. They were called, “There’s No Such Thing as a Secret” and “How Much is Your Sin Going to Cost Me?” As Dodd says in an article posted on Christianitytoday.com, “I don’t know anyone who was not shocked that there was such a thing as a secret for him. Haggard’s double life was a searing revelation to his family, his church, and his closest friends.”

Good or bad, one thing in my experience you can almost always count on – preachers work out their own personal demons in the sermons they preach. Whatever they’re wrestling with inside, will work it’s way out in their messages. I’ve discovered over the years that when a preacher hammers away on a particular subject – sexual sin, financial issues, family, or whatever, it’s a good indication of what they’re struggling with personally.

If we paid attention better, maybe we could save a few before they wreck their lives…

This entry was posted on Sunday, February 15th, 2009 at 6:33 pm and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

Dan Esau

After preaching for almost 20 years, I’d say you are dead on. I am convinced you can tell what a preacher is wrestling with by one of two things, either what they often/always talk about or about what they never talk about. We often purge our guilt through the pulpit. We publicly address sin we are wrestling with as some kind of catharsis or else we never speak of them. I am reluctant to talk about the areas of I have no victory in or haven’t come to peace with. There is a side to this though that is positive. We should always be wrestling with the truth and that conflict or struggle becomes the energy of a good sermon. Like an author using conflict as a centerpiece for a story so too the good preacher can use inner conflict as the centerpiece of a good sermon. David’s fears and failures became the center of some of the great Psalms. It can be healthy to admit you haven’t got everything worked out and that you also are growing and trying to see how this faith is lived out in your own life. The questions becomes how much can a preacher reveal before people lose respect for them. I have heard stories of preachers who have been very open in the pulpit about their struggles and as a result have lost a great deal of credibility from the congregation. Others have found that by revealing their own battles they have won the admiration and sympathy of their audience. In doing so they have paved the way for hope, "Follow me as I follow Christ." So how much do you reveal? I don’t really have an answer but I do know that transparency is better than hypocrisy.
Katie Scottfield

You confirmed what I have telling my spouse for years. If a pastor has to repeatedly tell you how perfect their spouse is or great their kids are or how smart they are and even insist members of their administration speak the same mantra to everyone else then maybe…just maybe…things aren’t as perfect and great as they want you to believe. You also made a good point that if someone had been paying attention we might have been able to make a difference. Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a better system to pastor the pastors. It can’t be easy living in the fishbowl of religion but it can be just as devastating to the congregation that the pastor takes out his internal conflict on, no one wins.
shawn h.

Interesting article. I would imagine there are a lot of pastors who feel isolated and that there is no one they can really confide in. I agree that it should make us think more about how we can offer support to our pastors.
SecretKeeper

The sexual issues run far deeper than anyone here, so far, is willing to admit. We talk about it third party… like it is somebody else’s problem. The mainstreaming of softcore, with hardcore close behind, is impacting every man in the church and every male leader in the church. Until there is a “safe” forum, it remains hidden, and deadly. And I remain anonymous.
Mary Hutchinson

SecretKeeper, see my earlier comment…get the book "TrueFaced."
http://StAndrewOrthodox.info Fr. Mark Wallace

"…a better system to pastor the pastors" is something that is called "Bishop" in the liturgical world. That is definitely something I lacked during the years I served as a non-denominational pastor. While it’s true that Protestant churches (i.e. Methodist, Lutheran, and Episcopal among others) have them, they don’t seem able to exercise the same clout that bishops have in the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches. However, as scripturally sound as it is to have bishops pastoring the pastors, ultimately their effectiveness will remain based in the integrity of the bishop/priest relationship.
breaklight

The same is true for individuals, just more so in their conversations and more often than not they have some people who they can talk to and vice versa without the need to exert position, status or financial standing, just people who can tell them what to do if required or can help them without whatever they dealing with without fear of being exposed. James 5:16 should be practiced more no matter what position a person holds in the Body of Christ.
Elizabeth Conley

When Christian leaders have a problem, they generally tell on themselves. At least, if you’re really listening you’ll hear it.

One ministry leader I know claims everyone he dislikes is dishonest, has exotic mental problems, and is concealing sexual sins.   He’s nuttier than Claxton Cake, thinks no one knows he married his wife after she bore him two children, and suffers from a compulsion to tell crazy stories.   His ministry has had 100 % turn over several times over.

A pastor in the neighboring town thinks everyone who disagrees with her is ignorant or evil. Guess what? The poor gal knows little or nothing about the Bible. She runs people out of the church if she thinks they have the capacity to realize this. At last count there were 16 active members. That number is probably still declining. She selects a new target from the flock every few months.   She’s run away a lot of gentle, understanding people. Her ignorance was never an issue to any of them.

One of the more flamboyant bad actors around here batters children and women, indulges in serial affairs and has a criminal record full of assault and battery charges. Needless to say, he sees enemies and bullies everywhere.   At one point this year his ministry consisted of his two young grandchildren, who seemed terrified of him.

Some people say stay and pray, I say just walk away. Although they stubbornly avoid self recrimination, on some level these people know what they’re doing.  They also know it is wrong.   That’s why they are so "offensively" defensive.

There is a preponderance of good pastors and wonderful churches in the world. There’s no need to waste time and resources on the dysfunctional ones.
Secretkeeper

Good lord… and how do you know all of these facts so intimately?
breaklight

“There’s no need to waste time and resources on the dysfunctional ones.” Sorry, but I fail to see the Christ like attitude here. So who will help ‘them’ heal and become better if we just dump them? We just leave the problems for who to clean up? The dysfunction runs deeper than many of us are willing to admit and they did not start today but we tend to often deal with symptoms/fruits/actions rather than the roots of the matter. We forget that problems we ignore or leave unresolved will only be dealt with another generation or persons close to us eventually – they never really go away until we start to actively find ways to overcome these issues instead of neglecting them these issues will just grow into something else. But from my observation, the leadership system in the Body of Christ needs a complete overhaul or else there might not be a ‘church’ to attend due to the lack of transparency and access to leaders because of a broken and fallen human hierarchal system which we are building on but was never ever of God or Jesus Christ. Look at Jesus Christ and see how he handled his disciples and ran His ministry. Are we really following Jesus Christ or are we just using Him for our own agenda?
Elizabeth Conley

You’re joking. Right?

These people fool no one but themselves and the willfully deaf, blind and ignorant. It takes a huge dose of self-will to avoid reality. You’ve got to construct a vast schema of lies to accomodate all this drama.
Elizabeth Conley

Breaklight, I’m over it. I’m a 47 year old mother of 2. I home school. My son suffers from an unusual medical condition that calls for extensive time in doctors’ offices and surgery, not to mention recoveries from surgery.

I’m tired of waiting around for the people who protect these "leaders" and hide their malfeasance to start taking steps to confront, heal and restore these individuals. I’ve talked to each of these "leaders". They’ve erupted in fury, and thrown tantrums that would put a two year old to shame.   They’ve redoubled their efforts to hid their malfeasance.

Now what? Am I supposed to continue to expose my children to this? Am I supposed to continue to snooze on a pew waiting for something worth wile to drop from these people’s lips?   (Yeah, so even a broken clock is right twice in every 24 hour cycle. Does that really mean we have to sit around waiting to revel in those rare instances?)

In your opinion Breaklight, just how high should the organic fertilizer pile up around us before we’re allowed to move on?  Do my children and I have to drown in it before the rest of you are satisfied that we’ve been humble and long suffering enough? My children and I have been both physically and spiritually abused. We’ve been lied to, we’ve been slandered and we’ve been subjected to demands that we support beliefs and causes we know to be based on lies.

Choosing to join healthy ministries and listen to good teaching is my way of following Jesus Christ. Taking my children to environments where Christians interact appropriately is my way of training them up properly.

I tried going along to get along. I tried staying and praying. I tried gentle confrontation. All of that just made the problems worse.

Leaving these people’s ministries accomplishes the following:

My kids and I get to listen to God’s Word in church services each Sunday.

My kids and I are safe and happy in church.

We get to attend Sunday school and enjoy fellowship.

Our efforts and tithes support worthy causes.

I’m sorry you have a problem with this, but I really don’t care any more.   I got tired of being lied to, slandered and even physically struck. I got tired of my children being verbally and physically abused.   All we had to do to be safe from abuse and bad teaching was to walk away.   Frankly, in the face of abuse for staying and condemnation for leaving, there really is no "approved" course. It’s rather liberating. No matter what I did, I was going to be "wrong" in someone’s eyes. Fine! I’m wrong, in your eyes Breaklight.  I can live with that, because I’m not going to be punched in the face by a Christian leader this week, and nobody’s going to terrorize my kids in church this Sunday.

More women and children should walk away from abusive leadership. When we stay and pray, we give cover for the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

The fruit of the Spirit are Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness (some translate Generousity), Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self Control. I challenge you to hold on to your Love, Joy and Peace while practicing Patience, Kindness, Generousity, Faithfulness, Gentleness and Self Control in the face of long term abuse.

Welcome to a "good" Christian Woman’s world. It gets old gentlemen. Very, very old.
breaklight

You are right in your decision. Here is a true story; Adam is a 20 years old now. He told the Good Childhood Inquiry panel his story. Never really experiencing the family love and support that are so important for a good childhood, Adam was taken into care at a young age. He was moved from residential home to residential home and, when that didn’t work, into foster care. Actually nothing worked for Adam and he fought against every attempt to reach out to him. Eventually, he got involved in crime and at age 14 began the first of three sentences in prison. After hearing his story, one of teh panel members asked him whether ther was anyone in his life for whom he had praise. It took Adam a few seconds to respond. Then he said that the only person he could think of was his Independent Visitor. This is the person we provided as a contact point for Adam while he was in prison – someone to talk to, to help him think through his situation and navigate choices as well as plan for his release and next steps. Adam rebelled against him and used every trick in his book to make the visitor leave and not come back. But it didn’t work . For the first time in Adam’s life, he had met someone who would not give up on him, who, regardless of the treatment that Adam subjected him to, would come back, week after week after week. Adam explained that he eventually decided that if there was nothing he could do to cause his visitor to leave, then he might as well try and make the relationship work. This was the beginning of Adam’s first constructive and positive relationship with an adult. Now, six years on, they are still in contact and this realtionship provides Adam with a critically important source of stability, from which other relationships can grow. Adam is out of prison and determined to make something of his life. Adam’s story is an example of the power of commitment in a realtionship with a child. Once it was clear to Adam that at least this one adult would never give up on him or abandon him, he was able to look afresh at himself and start the long journey towards what he himself would consider a productive life. I hope you understand what I am saying?
Elizabeth Conley

Yes Breaklight, I do. Adam was a child with what psychiatry calls "conduct disorder". Studies demonstrate that if a child with conduct disorder can have just one loving relationship with an adult role model, s/he will not go on to become an adult with anti-social personality disorder, ie a sociopath or psychopath, depending on the severity of the personality disorder.

Developing such a relationship with an at risk child is one of the most valuable ways a Christian can serve.

Adults with Cluster B personality/character disorders can be saved. Ministry to them is very worthwhile.   It is important to appreciate that God can heal them. To fear otherwise is to worship something less than God.

I was blessed with an unexpected opportunity to pull strings and expose the most seriously at risk of the three "leaders" to interactions with a mature Christian community.  This community of believers treats him well, while gently insisting he respect appropriate interpersonal boundaries.    It’s a joy to behold. This type of relationship has the potential to bear good fruit.

God does provide ways for the community of believers to nurture every member. These ways aren’t always obvious to me, because they are His ways, not mine.   Directly meeting the spiritual needs of abusive, exploitive people is not my gift. Knowing this gives me a strong appreciation for those who possess this talent, because it is truly precious.
http://ProdigalEye.org Richard

I was a young minister who ended up leaving the church because of my own abandonment issues, but I believe that I would have struggled with promiscuity issues if I had remained in ministry for two reasons:

1. I needed female attention badly because of issues with my mother and there was no greater validation for me on this issue than sex with a woman.

2. Strong public speakers are idolized and that creates opportunity, even in a church.

I agree with the comment that we should support pastors and not let them feel isolated by their profession.

There are ministers mentioned here that obviously should not be in ministry, but most are just humans in need of support.
freethinker

funny how it works… I was getting ready for a shoot with a hip and popular youth rally preacher turned pastor in Tulsa when, right before I ushered him into the set, he made a weird sexual comment. In a split second, after hearing the comment, I felt uncomfortable by hearing it, especially because it came from a Pastor. A few years later, he split his church after an affair he had with another woman…
http://ConfidentFaith.com Bette Dowdell

I think we support our ministers best by holding them accountable, by responding to "weird" remarks and not just letting them slip by.

Our clergy nowadays seem to think the Bible means whatever they want it to mean–and so they preach. And so they think. And so they act.

I get weary of preachers including me in their sins. They have to resist pornography, but then "everybody does, and if you say you don’t, you’re lying." Excuse me, but no. I decided to follow Christ with everything I had. Satan unloaded some of his best ammunition on me, but thanks to my decision to learn to recognize and follow the voice of the Holy Spirit, the trials made me stronger. And I do believe that’s the way it’s supposed to be.

But a lot of people choose not to go through the refining process, content to remain vulnerable babies. If you choose to remain vulnerable, what do you expect?
http://www.germworks.net Jermayn

WOW Awesome insight and quite scary actually..

Katie raises a good point though, how do we get our pastors the same help, support etc that many give us?
http://www.marked35.blogspot.com Mark E

There is an element of truth in this.

Sometimes a pastor is in touch with the needs, sins and issues the people are facing….and because he has empathy….and it burns within him, he preaches about it. It may also be that when he reads about awful things happening, he is concerned and wonders what it might be like if it happened to him, so his concerns turn into passion about it.

Hybels says we should have a holy discontent. I agree with him, there should be things that make us mad…and we want to do something about it. That does not mean the pastor himself is involved in it.
islandgirl

Dead on…

In working with pastors I have often gotten the impression that God tries to speak to their heart about something (sin) in their lives, and instead of it sticking…they roll it right out into a sermon. The word from God never impacts their lives at all.

Years ago, I knew a preacher who was having an affair. I picked up his tape (yes, it was that long ago) on the Ten Commandments. Listening to it–he only preached about nine of them.

How do any of us who work with preachers stay saved??
Mary Hutchinson

Have you read the book "TrueFaced"? Every person who is a professional Christian–works daily in ministry in some way– needs to read it and "get it".

This is what these pastors (and me) need.
http://marcushackler.com Marcus Hackler

There is also something to be said for the responsibility of the church staff in supporting their pastor. More often than not the culture of the church is one that a pastor who has a problem will be cast aside or even ignored (evident in Ted Haggard’s case). It is our responsibility to cover them, protect them, and offer true, authentic love and help when they need it.

An example of this would be Leo and Molly Godzich’s marriage rescue program for pastors. It is a confidential program that any pastor can take advantage of when they are most vulnerable. Instead of ignoring our pastors in crisis, we need to come along side of them.
Elizabeth Conley

Respectfully, I believe that Ted Haggard received considerable counseling and an excellent severance package. He continues to be mentored. Ted Haggard’s problems were and are not minor. They require serious work, not just a brief show of contrition and restoration.

His church’s response to their crisis continues to be a landmark example of healthy church governance. We should hold them up for praise, not pillory them for failing to "support" Haggard. Showing appropriate care and concern for a suffering Christian doesn’t mean putting him right back in the situation he was unable to function in previously.
Elizabeth Conley

Further:

Respectfully, have you researched the Ted Haggard situation recently?

Sometimes congregations need to be allowed to move on from leadership crises. New Life Church is doing a great job. Really and truly, there is a great deal to celebrate here.

Furthermore, Ted Haggard remains a men of great complexity, a study in strength and weakness, and a study in honesty in the face of great personal discomfort.

Let’s celebrate the triumphs within this tragedy. There is so much good here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/us/27haggard.html
breaklight

The whole church leadership system is not right within its institutional framework and context from a Scriptural standpoint old or new testament but especially new testament. Church was not designed for just pastors alone to lead, teach and preach (check out what the true gifts of the Body of Christ are which is found in Ephesians 4:11 – it was never just for the pastors to lead the Church) and unfortunately that is why they are the ones that get the brunt of it when it goes wrong. Church is not a corporate business organisation where if the one CEO fails everything else fails and everyone can easily apportion blame to them. If everybody in the Body of Christ were to equally share and minister regularly I just wonder then whether we would be able to point the finger (or even have the time because then we would recognise just how hard it is as well) when one leader falls/fails as we can easily do now because it is so easy to identify who the leader is. Jesus Christ was so close and like His disciples that he was not easily identified by the religious and political leaders (Herod thought He was John the Baptist raised from the dead:-)) that He was betrayed by one of His disciples. The pastoral leadership system is set up to fail whether we like it or not because as long as a man is to be revered and surrounds him or herself as important you are on the road for a fall. No man is Jesus Christ (and even Jesus Christ was completely approachable by His disciples to the point that one of them lay his head on His bosom) and therefore must surround him or herself with other believers for growth, encouragement and personal accountability. All this one man/woman leadership patterns is not good for the Church. Case in point, everytime we point the finger how many is pointing back?
Antthony Peterson

"Methinks he doth protest too much" – I think the quote is from Shakespeare’s Hamlet, although I’m certain Freud would have a few words to say on the subject.

I always felt that those who talk about it the most, probably arent doing it (whatever "it" is). It certainly holds true for script writing, because the classic sign of a B grade script is when your characters say exactly what they feel and say it all the time.

Our gut instinct knows that the real world isn’t like that. If someone really loves their wife they show it mostly with actions. Talk is cheap.

What we do with our time and money reveals so much more about character than words. Maybe the likes of Machiavelli, Freud and Shakespeare should be added to compliment our personal libraries.
Katie Scottfield

That’s to funny–I have used that comment with my spouse and those around me to point out an area that I feel a pastor friend I know is dealing with and the just look at me like I am crazy–I think the same thought–The more they protest (talk about or repeat) then the more likely it is to be an issue.
Elizabeth Conley

There is so much good leadership within the body of Christ.

If we want to be free from that which isn’t wholesome, then let us cling firmly to that which is good.

Let us notice, let us affirm, and let us celebrate the triumphs of the Holy Spirit in our midst.

Phil Cooke

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