Comments on: Marketing Saavy and Branding Faith http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/ Change Revolution Tue, 22 May 2012 02:39:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Clairessemi http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-12099 Clairessemi Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:23:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-12099 Dear Peter Not sure if you are my long lost uncle?  Born in London, UK in 1936? If so, please could you contact me at clairessemi@sky.com @sky:disqus  Many thanks Claire Dear Peter

Not sure if you are my long lost uncle?  Born in London, UK in 1936?
If so, please could you contact me at clairessemi@sky.com
@sky:disqus 
Many thanks
Claire

]]> By: Elizabeth Conley http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4310 Elizabeth Conley Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4310 <p>"<strong>Open hearts. Open minds. Open doors."  </strong></p><p>That's not the view of the Methodist Church I got when I was younger, but we won't go there!  Anyway, I belong in the Methodist Church now.  Making allowances for our common humanity, Methodists seem to be living up to these ideals.</p><p>What worries me about the church and advertising is honesty.   The church needs to be more concerned about honesty than businesses are.  Through advertising we may be able to alter people's perception of us, or even our perception of ourselves.  That's a powerful thing.</p><p>For several decades I've been hearing people say "Perception is reality".  Well, perception is not reality.  We'd better be very, very certain our advertising is truthful.  If we're going to advertise that the "customer" is going to have a certain type of experience when he frequents our "business", we're going to have to deliver.</p><p>If we were a business, we might make it company policy that everyone say and do certain things when they encounter a customer.  We're not a business.  We're a ministry or church.  What do we do if a member of the congregation doesn't adhere to "company policy"? </p><p>Disney tries hard to promise people a "Magical Experience" at their theme parks.  Can they really deliver?  Can they insure that fellow visitors to the park will behave in such a way that you and your family will be able to enjoy your visit?  (From all reports, no!)  Well, we can't either.  Trouble is, the stakes are a lot higher in our case.</p><p>So we may try to use advertising, but we'd better be sure we send an honest message.  Since hyperbole, suggestion and withholding pertinent facts seem to be the stock and trade of modern advertisements, that gives us a distinct handicap.</p><p>How do we make our ads as slick and appealing as the secular competitions, yet still retain our integrity.</p> "Open hearts. Open minds. Open doors." 

That's not the view of the Methodist Church I got when I was younger, but we won't go there!  Anyway, I belong in the Methodist Church now.  Making allowances for our common humanity, Methodists seem to be living up to these ideals.

What worries me about the church and advertising is honesty.   The church needs to be more concerned about honesty than businesses are.  Through advertising we may be able to alter people's perception of us, or even our perception of ourselves.  That's a powerful thing.

For several decades I've been hearing people say "Perception is reality".  Well, perception is not reality.  We'd better be very, very certain our advertising is truthful.  If we're going to advertise that the "customer" is going to have a certain type of experience when he frequents our "business", we're going to have to deliver.

If we were a business, we might make it company policy that everyone say and do certain things when they encounter a customer.  We're not a business.  We're a ministry or church.  What do we do if a member of the congregation doesn't adhere to "company policy"? 

Disney tries hard to promise people a "Magical Experience" at their theme parks.  Can they really deliver?  Can they insure that fellow visitors to the park will behave in such a way that you and your family will be able to enjoy your visit?  (From all reports, no!)  Well, we can't either.  Trouble is, the stakes are a lot higher in our case.

So we may try to use advertising, but we'd better be sure we send an honest message.  Since hyperbole, suggestion and withholding pertinent facts seem to be the stock and trade of modern advertisements, that gives us a distinct handicap.

How do we make our ads as slick and appealing as the secular competitions, yet still retain our integrity.

]]> By: Bart Breen http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4311 Bart Breen Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4311 <p>Good points.</p><p>I wrestle too with the thought that the medium to a certain extent is the message.  </p><p>The things that secular advertising do includes, altering perception and creating a felt need or relating that felt need toward a particular solution that is being offered.  </p><p>Our culture has become so conditioned to advertising of this nature that we recognize that and carry a high level of skepticism as to how accurate these messages are.</p><p>By adopting the pure methods in the same context, we may be tying our message in a way that diminishes it in the mind of many receiving it to the level of laundry detergent and Stock Broker Services.</p><p>I think we have to elevate the means to match the message.</p><p>The kicker is how you do that in a way which will allow you to be heard in the midst of all the noise that surrounds the message.</p><p>I don't profess to have that figured out, but I know there are times when I hear and see religious ads and messages and they hit me as somehow not worthy of what they're attempting to promote and I think some of your comments, Elizabeth, are as good an explanation as to why that is as any I've seen or come up on my own.</p> Good points.

I wrestle too with the thought that the medium to a certain extent is the message. 

The things that secular advertising do includes, altering perception and creating a felt need or relating that felt need toward a particular solution that is being offered. 

Our culture has become so conditioned to advertising of this nature that we recognize that and carry a high level of skepticism as to how accurate these messages are.

By adopting the pure methods in the same context, we may be tying our message in a way that diminishes it in the mind of many receiving it to the level of laundry detergent and Stock Broker Services.

I think we have to elevate the means to match the message.

The kicker is how you do that in a way which will allow you to be heard in the midst of all the noise that surrounds the message.

I don't profess to have that figured out, but I know there are times when I hear and see religious ads and messages and they hit me as somehow not worthy of what they're attempting to promote and I think some of your comments, Elizabeth, are as good an explanation as to why that is as any I've seen or come up on my own.

]]> By: John L http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4312 John L Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4312 <p>I dunno Phil. The whole modern religious package is looking more and more like a big business - so unlike the simple, organic NT gatherings. The interview depressed me. I've spent most of my adult life around business at all levels. Someone wrote, “we work in corporate america all week long, why go worship there too?” Referring to Jesus as a "product" (as she does) is frankly kinda creepy. </p><p>I 'm not denying that much of modern Christendom is successfully "branded" to "sell" more "product" - I'm just not sure this is kind of language or ethos we should be using to reflect God. It seems backwards. God is reflected and transmitted in both nature and transformed lives. </p><p>Modern business tools were invented by capitalists to gain wealth and power. One wag has defined marketing as the "subtle art of manipulation and deception in selling crap to nerds." How does the church distance itself from these man-made vehicles while remaining addicted to them?</p><p>Today, I have more questions than answers. Perhaps Mara will join the conversation here?</p> I dunno Phil. The whole modern religious package is looking more and more like a big business – so unlike the simple, organic NT gatherings. The interview depressed me. I've spent most of my adult life around business at all levels. Someone wrote, “we work in corporate america all week long, why go worship there too?” Referring to Jesus as a "product" (as she does) is frankly kinda creepy.

I 'm not denying that much of modern Christendom is successfully "branded" to "sell" more "product" – I'm just not sure this is kind of language or ethos we should be using to reflect God. It seems backwards. God is reflected and transmitted in both nature and transformed lives.

Modern business tools were invented by capitalists to gain wealth and power. One wag has defined marketing as the "subtle art of manipulation and deception in selling crap to nerds." How does the church distance itself from these man-made vehicles while remaining addicted to them?

Today, I have more questions than answers. Perhaps Mara will join the conversation here?

]]> By: Phil http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4313 Phil Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4313 <p>I didn't say Mara and I always agree, but she does make me think.  :-)  </p><p>I've sent her the thread and I hope she weighs in...    </p> I didn't say Mara and I always agree, but she does make me think.  :-) 

I've sent her the thread and I hope she weighs in…   

]]> By: Peter Smythe http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4314 Peter Smythe Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4314 To add a little bit to John L.'s comment, the Gospel doesn't just consist of persuasive words or cute marketing jingles for some kind of self-actualization or aggrandizement.  It carries with it the absolute power of saving a man's soul from an eternal hell and rebirthing him into the kingdom of God Almighty.  Treating it with the same levity as a bottle of Drano consigns us to a hollow godliness without any power to speak of. To add a little bit to John L.'s comment, the Gospel doesn't just consist of persuasive words or cute marketing jingles for some kind of self-actualization or aggrandizement.  It carries with it the absolute power of saving a man's soul from an eternal hell and rebirthing him into the kingdom of God Almighty.  Treating it with the same levity as a bottle of Drano consigns us to a hollow godliness without any power to speak of.

]]> By: Phil http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4315 Phil Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4315 I don't think that's really Mara's point or mine. The issue is how do we get our message heard in a media-driven culture? I have a Ph.D. in theology so I more than most want a deeper church. We're way to shallow to impact this culture. But we've got to get our message heard first. In a culture where we're being bombarded with 3,000 messages a day, how do we get that message heard through the clutter? The issue about branding is getting butts in the seats. From that point, a pastor needs to take them deep. The truth is, not matter how anointed your message, if no one is listening, you've failed. I don't really see a conflict. I don't think that's really Mara's point or mine. The issue is how do we get our message heard in a media-driven culture? I have a Ph.D. in theology so I more than most want a deeper church. We're way to shallow to impact this culture. But we've got to get our message heard first. In a culture where we're being bombarded with 3,000 messages a day, how do we get that message heard through the clutter? The issue about branding is getting butts in the seats. From that point, a pastor needs to take them deep. The truth is, not matter how anointed your message, if no one is listening, you've failed. I don't really see a conflict.

]]> By: breaklight http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4316 breaklight Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4316 We cannot expect to do things man's way and then expect God results. God is way higher than us human beings and therefore we must come up to a higher way of thinking if we are going to do things in a much better way. Who is God to us before He becomes God to those we want to reach out to? We cannot expect to do things man’s way and then expect God results. God is way higher than us human beings and therefore we must come up to a higher way of thinking if we are going to do things in a much better way. Who is God to us before He becomes God to those we want to reach out to?

]]> By: breaklight http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4317 breaklight Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4317 If the bible is our instruction manual for life here on earth in preparation for the new earth and heaven to come, why do we (believers) so try to do it the world's way and then we are disappointed when it doesn't work or it gets shallow results? The merchants of cool are the new gods of today as we worship the tech gadgets that rob us of time with God and then wonder why our lives are reduced to nothing more than dollars and cents based on the hours and minutes of the day (pounds and pences here in the UK). God never called us to follow the world neither did He give us a value system based on the world's value system. There is more to us than we are willing to admit and it will never come out when we are pursuing everything but God in our lives. If the truth be known seeking God will make us completely different from everyone else but as relevant and if not much more real than anyone else. If the bible is our instruction manual for life here on earth in preparation for the new earth and heaven to come, why do we (believers) so try to do it the world’s way and then we are disappointed when it doesn’t work or it gets shallow results? The merchants of cool are the new gods of today as we worship the tech gadgets that rob us of time with God and then wonder why our lives are reduced to nothing more than dollars and cents based on the hours and minutes of the day (pounds and pences here in the UK). God never called us to follow the world neither did He give us a value system based on the world’s value system. There is more to us than we are willing to admit and it will never come out when we are pursuing everything but God in our lives. If the truth be known seeking God will make us completely different from everyone else but as relevant and if not much more real than anyone else.

]]> By: Luke http://philcooke.com/mara_einstein/#comment-4318 Luke Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/Mara_Einstein#comment-4318 <p><strong>"the simple, organic NT gatherings."</strong></p><p>Do you live like they did back then over 2000 years ago? I didn't think so, why would you think something they did back then at the beginning of Christianity would still be relevant today? I'm sorry but a lot of churches are like time machines. You walk in the front door and boom it's like 1950, 1960, 1970 or if your lucky maybe 1980! What a turn off!  </p> "the simple, organic NT gatherings."

Do you live like they did back then over 2000 years ago? I didn't think so, why would you think something they did back then at the beginning of Christianity would still be relevant today? I'm sorry but a lot of churches are like time machines. You walk in the front door and boom it's like 1950, 1960, 1970 or if your lucky maybe 1980! What a turn off! 

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