Comments on: The Need to Fire Employees http://philcooke.com/firing/ Change Revolution Tue, 22 May 2012 02:39:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Grantd http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-11232 Grantd Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:56:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-11232 Hey, i think that is great advice! Hey, i think that is great advice!

]]> By: Anonymous http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-673 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-673 <p>Phil,</p><p>Having done some firing in the ministry as well as having been fired, your point is well taken as to the need to clean house once in a while. Being fired hurts but it is often good for the person, as it may have been for the Mark of Acts if he was the same Mark of 2 Tim 4:11. As for me, my firing turned out for good. Sometimes, if receptive to and led by the H.S., quiting can be an easier and less painful alternative.</p><p>Mack</p> Phil,

Having done some firing in the ministry as well as having been fired, your point is well taken as to the need to clean house once in a while. Being fired hurts but it is often good for the person, as it may have been for the Mark of Acts if he was the same Mark of 2 Tim 4:11. As for me, my firing turned out for good. Sometimes, if receptive to and led by the H.S., quiting can be an easier and less painful alternative.

Mack

]]> By: Anonymous http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-674 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-674 <p>The general point is on target, but the example does not necessarily fit the bill. In 2 Timothy 4:11, Paul instructs the reader to bring Mark to Rome, because he is useful to him in his ministry. If this is the same Mark, then we see evidence that Paul did not write off his usefulness in the big picture. Sometimes, a person needs to be relieved because they are going in a different direction, but a redemptive view would suggest that the division between Paul and Barnabas actually created more missionary outreach and God used this disagreement for good. </p> The general point is on target, but the example does not necessarily fit the bill. In 2 Timothy 4:11, Paul instructs the reader to bring Mark to Rome, because he is useful to him in his ministry. If this is the same Mark, then we see evidence that Paul did not write off his usefulness in the big picture. Sometimes, a person needs to be relieved because they are going in a different direction, but a redemptive view would suggest that the division between Paul and Barnabas actually created more missionary outreach and God used this disagreement for good. 

]]> By: Anonymous http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-675 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-675 <p>Hey Phil, Great post. This is one of my pet gripes about ministries. A staff member usually has to murder someone to warrant dismissal. Most ministry payrolls are bloated with ineffective, over-promoted, under-skilled people who have “great hearts.” </p><p>In 20 years, I have only seen one ministry that was in the other ditch. They tended to bring people on, burn them out and toss them aside without much thought. But that species of organization is rare in the extreme. </p><p>One more thing...I’ve always contended that when, out of compassion, a ministry keeps someone employed who is ineffective, it does a grave disservice to both the organization AND the individual. It hamstrings the ministry’s effectiveness but also keeps that individual from seeking and finding God’s highest and best place of service. Ministries need to get better at “tough love.”</p> Hey Phil, Great post. This is one of my pet gripes about ministries. A staff member usually has to murder someone to warrant dismissal. Most ministry payrolls are bloated with ineffective, over-promoted, under-skilled people who have “great hearts.”

In 20 years, I have only seen one ministry that was in the other ditch. They tended to bring people on, burn them out and toss them aside without much thought. But that species of organization is rare in the extreme.

One more thing…I’ve always contended that when, out of compassion, a ministry keeps someone employed who is ineffective, it does a grave disservice to both the organization AND the individual. It hamstrings the ministry’s effectiveness but also keeps that individual from seeking and finding God’s highest and best place of service. Ministries need to get better at “tough love.”

]]> By: prestonz http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-676 prestonz Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-676 <p>Absolutely, right on point. I thoroughly enjoyed this article. You mentioned John Maxwell, I was taken back for a moment. In my life I dont hear of too many people that read his books. In one of his books(unsure of which one really) he describes the 80/20 application. It is practical and somewhat on point with this article. A leader ( which can be anyone at any level of an organization) should spend 80% of his/her time with the 20% that yields the greatest reward or positive return. Likewise the other 20% of time should be spent with building up and /or weeding out the other 80% that does not have a great return. Sometimes part of this 80% needs to be let go or built up in a role that is better suited even if it means another organization. As workers and Christians we need to be concerned with excellence and strive for it at whatever level we find ourselves and whatever decisions that may need to be made. </p> Absolutely, right on point. I thoroughly enjoyed this article. You mentioned John Maxwell, I was taken back for a moment. In my life I dont hear of too many people that read his books. In one of his books(unsure of which one really) he describes the 80/20 application. It is practical and somewhat on point with this article. A leader ( which can be anyone at any level of an organization) should spend 80% of his/her time with the 20% that yields the greatest reward or positive return. Likewise the other 20% of time should be spent with building up and /or weeding out the other 80% that does not have a great return. Sometimes part of this 80% needs to be let go or built up in a role that is better suited even if it means another organization. As workers and Christians we need to be concerned with excellence and strive for it at whatever level we find ourselves and whatever decisions that may need to be made.

]]> By: Anonymous http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-677 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-677 <p>I fully agree with the statement that others in the organization will already be suffering the bad employee before you get around to figuring it out. If you can't motivate them and they can't improve on their own it is time to move on. This firing is best for you, the ministry and the employee in the long run. As Christians this is hard because feelings do get hurt and people are left with a bad taste for "the ministry" but better that than the wasting of dollars given for ministry being thrown away on an unproductive employee. That's just bad stewardship, period.</p> I fully agree with the statement that others in the organization will already be suffering the bad employee before you get around to figuring it out. If you can't motivate them and they can't improve on their own it is time to move on. This firing is best for you, the ministry and the employee in the long run. As Christians this is hard because feelings do get hurt and people are left with a bad taste for "the ministry" but better that than the wasting of dollars given for ministry being thrown away on an unproductive employee. That's just bad stewardship, period.

]]> By: Anonymous http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-678 Anonymous Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-678 <p>I have made the hard choices and the easy ones when it comes to firing people in the ministry. I always think of a scale and which way it would tip if you weighed what good an individual brings against the bad. This almost always hold true, even with the "three strikes" appoach.</p><p>However, he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. I was fired with no strikes, no warning, just a "we would like to free you up to pursue other opportunities." Come to find out that "room" was made for the son of the high-profile-minister to climb the ladder.</p><p> OUCH! </p><p>It has been hard but God provides. </p><p>R </p> I have made the hard choices and the easy ones when it comes to firing people in the ministry. I always think of a scale and which way it would tip if you weighed what good an individual brings against the bad. This almost always hold true, even with the "three strikes" appoach.

However, he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword. I was fired with no strikes, no warning, just a "we would like to free you up to pursue other opportunities." Come to find out that "room" was made for the son of the high-profile-minister to climb the ladder.

 OUCH!

It has been hard but God provides.

R

]]> By: Bob Regnerus http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-679 Bob Regnerus Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-679 Phil, You're spot on. I had to fire several people in the past year, both for performance reasons and for financial. Firing someone was the hardest, most emotional thing I ever had to do. I was physically sick about it, but this person was not catching the vision, was mishandling client relationships, and costing me money - but yet I wanted to be gracious. I misunderstood was grace was. That by enabling this person, I was doing damage to her, to my clients, to my other staff, and to me. It had to be done. Doesn't mean we don't love the people, it can be done in love, but when it has to be done. It has to be done. I am going to post this with a like back to your site. Thank you for posting this, Phil. Phil,

You’re spot on. I had to fire several people in the past year, both for performance reasons and for financial. Firing someone was the hardest, most emotional thing I ever had to do. I was physically sick about it, but this person was not catching the vision, was mishandling client relationships, and costing me money – but yet I wanted to be gracious. I misunderstood was grace was. That by enabling this person, I was doing damage to her, to my clients, to my other staff, and to me. It had to be done. Doesn’t mean we don’t love the people, it can be done in love, but when it has to be done. It has to be done. I am going to post this with a like back to your site. Thank you for posting this, Phil.

]]> By: Ron Lambros http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-680 Ron Lambros Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-680 <p>Firing someone is one of the most difficult experience of anyone’s profession career, especially when it involves a faith-based company or ministry. I suppose many feel that ministries are immune to poor personnel performances, necessitating dismissals. The sad truth is, no organization is immune from the harsh reality that, sometimes, someone needs to go. When you sit on my side of the desk, professional standards and Christian-based policies and procedures dictate that I give every opportunity and chance, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. I can honestly say that I have never terminated anyone in anger or unjustly. People deserve better. But I have terminated someone who I knew was not a good fit far too late. My job should be to know the difference between the two. I always strive for fairness and objectivity, trying my best to make it work, either in their current position or finding a place that suits them better. But when every attempt fails, I am honest , caring and compassionate, but firm and direct. I seek to encourage and not destroy. And I seek to invest my years of knowledge and perspective into them, that they might, hopefully, grow and learn from the total experience. Does it always work? Not always. People you fire sometimes get angry and bitter and say terrible things about you. I do not have to answer to that person. I must remember that I have been afforded stewardship over a ministry organization and will be held accountable for every action taken, to my Board of Directors and, more importantly, my God. I will always remember a management principle I learned very early in my college career. A great professor of mine imparted this jewel of wisdom: It’s not the ones you fire that come back to haunt you. It’s the ones you should have, but didn’t. Pearls of wisdom, even after 40 years.</p> Firing someone is one of the most difficult experience of anyone’s profession career, especially when it involves a faith-based company or ministry. I suppose many feel that ministries are immune to poor personnel performances, necessitating dismissals. The sad truth is, no organization is immune from the harsh reality that, sometimes, someone needs to go. When you sit on my side of the desk, professional standards and Christian-based policies and procedures dictate that I give every opportunity and chance, but sometimes it just doesn’t work out. I can honestly say that I have never terminated anyone in anger or unjustly. People deserve better. But I have terminated someone who I knew was not a good fit far too late. My job should be to know the difference between the two. I always strive for fairness and objectivity, trying my best to make it work, either in their current position or finding a place that suits them better. But when every attempt fails, I am honest , caring and compassionate, but firm and direct. I seek to encourage and not destroy. And I seek to invest my years of knowledge and perspective into them, that they might, hopefully, grow and learn from the total experience. Does it always work? Not always. People you fire sometimes get angry and bitter and say terrible things about you. I do not have to answer to that person. I must remember that I have been afforded stewardship over a ministry organization and will be held accountable for every action taken, to my Board of Directors and, more importantly, my God. I will always remember a management principle I learned very early in my college career. A great professor of mine imparted this jewel of wisdom: It’s not the ones you fire that come back to haunt you. It’s the ones you should have, but didn’t. Pearls of wisdom, even after 40 years.

]]> By: Tim http://philcooke.com/firing/#comment-681 Tim Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://philcooke.vintom.com/firing#comment-681 Phil, Good article - but keep in mind that sometimes employees don't "catch the vision" or want to move forward because the leader is really an idiot. Morally or otherwise, they are flawed and incapable of Biblically (or otherwise) wise decisions. What keeps an employee or vendor from ending up in this situation ? Good research. Research the company, and especially the top leadership BEFORE making contact with them or responding to any contact from them. Remember - if the leader(s) have been in place for more than 2-3 years they have had a chance to impact the organzation and perhaps the people at the lower or mid levels of the organization are a reflection of who is at the top. Morons run companies and business units even today and while we should love them (Christ commands it) we are NOT *required* to establish relationships with them in cases where we have a real choice. Here is a verse from the book of Proverbs that expresses some guidance on this issue. Proverbs 14:17 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when you do not percieve in him the lips of knowledge. Thank you and God bless you, Tim Phil,

Good article – but keep in mind that sometimes employees don’t “catch the vision” or want to move forward because the leader is really an idiot. Morally or otherwise, they are flawed and incapable of Biblically (or otherwise) wise decisions.

What keeps an employee or vendor from ending up in this situation ? Good research. Research the company, and especially the top leadership BEFORE making contact with them or responding to any contact from them. Remember – if the leader(s) have been in place for more than 2-3 years they have had a chance to impact the organzation and perhaps the people at the lower or mid levels of the organization are a reflection of who is at the top.

Morons run companies and business units even today and while we should love them (Christ commands it) we are NOT *required* to establish relationships with them in cases where we have a real choice.

Here is a verse from the book of Proverbs that expresses some guidance on this issue.
Proverbs 14:17 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when you do not percieve in him the lips of knowledge.

Thank you and God bless you,
Tim

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