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	<title>Comments on: Has Church Become too Casual?</title>
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	<description>Change Revolution</description>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Conley</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5437</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Conley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5437</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Different strokes for different folks.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I know a family who rejected several churches because the attire of female congregants was immodest.  (I agreed with their assessment.  Some of these gals mammas didn&#039;t know what they weren&#039;t wearin&#039;.)  On the other hand, the church they settled on doesn&#039;t permit women to wear slacks in church.  Their private school even expects their girls to play sports in divided skirts.  I don&#039;t play that.  To be blunt, my grannies didn&#039;t play that.  They last woman in my family to wear a divided skirt was my great grandmother.   She was running a farm and raising 9 children alone.  She was the last woman in my family to humor sexists, but even her long-suffering attitude had a limit.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In our Methodist church people dress nicely, but no one scowls at pant suits.  The service is traditional, but we&#039;re not caught up in expensive trappings. I&#039;m comfortable there.  When I am on holiday in Canada, I attend a similarly traditional but informal Lutheran church.      &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve seen people dress to the nines to attend very nontraditional services, and I&#039;ve seen people flock to the Catholic church for their comforting rituals.  It probably doesn&#039;t matter.  Soap washes and churches save, packaging and branding is irrelevant.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;People are going to be attracted to different churches based on dress norms and the degree of ritual that appeals to them.  There&#039;s a church for everyone out there.  That&#039;s a good thing. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Different strokes for different folks.  </p>
<p>I know a family who rejected several churches because the attire of female congregants was immodest.  (I agreed with their assessment.  Some of these gals mammas didn&#39;t know what they weren&#39;t wearin&#39;.)  On the other hand, the church they settled on doesn&#39;t permit women to wear slacks in church.  Their private school even expects their girls to play sports in divided skirts.  I don&#39;t play that.  To be blunt, my grannies didn&#39;t play that.  They last woman in my family to wear a divided skirt was my great grandmother.   She was running a farm and raising 9 children alone.  She was the last woman in my family to humor sexists, but even her long-suffering attitude had a limit.</p>
<p>In our Methodist church people dress nicely, but no one scowls at pant suits.  The service is traditional, but we&#39;re not caught up in expensive trappings. I&#39;m comfortable there.  When I am on holiday in Canada, I attend a similarly traditional but informal Lutheran church.      </p>
<p>I&#39;ve seen people dress to the nines to attend very nontraditional services, and I&#39;ve seen people flock to the Catholic church for their comforting rituals.  It probably doesn&#39;t matter.  Soap washes and churches save, packaging and branding is irrelevant.</p>
<p>People are going to be attracted to different churches based on dress norms and the degree of ritual that appeals to them.  There&#39;s a church for everyone out there.  That&#39;s a good thing. </p>
<p>&#160;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeanette</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5438</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeanette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5438</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The question I would like to pose is... who is influencing who? Are we being influenced by the &quot;Y&quot; generation or even the culture in which we live? &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Years ago as a young Christian, I was someone who came out of the world (wearing mini-skirts and low cut blouses) and into the church not quite sure how I was supposed to dress so I would look to those in leadership as an example to follow. I am so thankful that they were not trying to influence me by dressing like me (that would have caused a HUGE stir within the church).:) &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I am now in my mid 40s and would look ridiculous if I dressed as if I were in my 20s. I hate to say it but some of the baby boomers who are trying to be HIP, look a little on the ridiculous side too. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;What happened to the days when women wore dresses to church or even to work. It appears that this culture has become so casual in dress, attitude and even character. What concerns me more and what&#039;s most important is, what&#039;s going on in the hearts of man? Is the casual exterior a reflection of what&#039;s happening on the inside? It&#039;s not really the type of music or the clothing that one wears that&#039;s most important, it&#039;s the heart that matters most. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Phil, like you... I love the old hymns, even though I didn&#039;t grow up with them. I personally still like to dress up for church:-) Oh... no! Is it my age?          &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question I would like to pose is&#8230; who is influencing who? Are we being influenced by the &quot;Y&quot; generation or even the culture in which we live? </p>
<p>Years ago as a young Christian, I was someone who came out of the world (wearing mini-skirts and low cut blouses) and into the church not quite sure how I was supposed to dress so I would look to those in leadership as an example to follow. I am so thankful that they were not trying to influence me by dressing like me (that would have caused a HUGE stir within the church).:) </p>
<p>I am now in my mid 40s and would look ridiculous if I dressed as if I were in my 20s. I hate to say it but some of the baby boomers who are trying to be HIP, look a little on the ridiculous side too. </p>
<p>What happened to the days when women wore dresses to church or even to work. It appears that this culture has become so casual in dress, attitude and even character. What concerns me more and what&#39;s most important is, what&#39;s going on in the hearts of man? Is the casual exterior a reflection of what&#39;s happening on the inside? It&#39;s not really the type of music or the clothing that one wears that&#39;s most important, it&#39;s the heart that matters most. </p>
<p>Phil, like you&#8230; I love the old hymns, even though I didn&#39;t grow up with them. I personally still like to dress up for church:-) Oh&#8230; no! Is it my age?          </p>
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		<title>By: Dominique</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5439</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5439</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;For me it has always been about allowing people to come &quot;as they are.&quot;  I am not a big proponent of dictating any dress guidelines for several reasons.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;First, I don&#039;t see that in the Bible.  Jesus always excepted people as they were, warts and all.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Second, I don&#039;t particularly think it is our job to demand that people who come to my church be like me or like how I determine they should be.  Isn&#039;t that what got us into the masking mess to begin with?  Church should be the one place I can be free to be me - the creature God created - not man.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Third, if we dictate to others what to do then how do we create an atmosphere for the Holy Spirit to convict each individual to the specific changes they need to make.  I&#039;ll give you an example.  When I first got saved in my late 20&#039;s I was a rabid devouter of romance novels.  I had several people tell me I shouldn&#039;t read those and give their opinions as to why. Then I had another group that thought it was okay.  It wasn&#039;t until the Holy Spirit convicted me about how romance novels had become an idol in my life because I spent more time in them than with God as well as it created a false imagery in my mind as to how a man should look that I knew I had to stop.  Needless to say, I gave them all away and never looked back.  That was a permanent change because I was convicted not because I was told, or forced by rules to change but because God had shown me that, for me, this was not something beneficial.  The same goes with dress.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Fourth, what works for you, may not work for me.  God created us as unique indiviuals and if you demanded me to look and act like you, I would cease to be the uinique individual God is calling me to be.  Even though we are talking about clothes it always seems to lead to other rules and regulations.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Sometimes, for me, I think those of us in the church of Christ (myself included) start to look more and more like the Pharisees of Jesus&#039; day.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Again, for me, I would rather create an atmosphere in which the Holy Spirit had free reign to speak one on one.  I believe with all me heart that the changes that would result would be profound and long lasting.  I also believe it would draw those &quot;outside&quot; in.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;But then I guess that why my blog is titled, An Unlikely Perspective 2, huh?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Great topic, Phil!!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I just discovered that on the new Yahoo Beta, I can add your blog as a module, so when I check my emails, there you are!  How cool is that?! &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me it has always been about allowing people to come &quot;as they are.&quot;  I am not a big proponent of dictating any dress guidelines for several reasons.</p>
<p>First, I don&#39;t see that in the Bible.  Jesus always excepted people as they were, warts and all.</p>
<p>Second, I don&#39;t particularly think it is our job to demand that people who come to my church be like me or like how I determine they should be.  Isn&#39;t that what got us into the masking mess to begin with?  Church should be the one place I can be free to be me &#8211; the creature God created &#8211; not man.</p>
<p>Third, if we dictate to others what to do then how do we create an atmosphere for the Holy Spirit to convict each individual to the specific changes they need to make.  I&#39;ll give you an example.  When I first got saved in my late 20&#39;s I was a rabid devouter of romance novels.  I had several people tell me I shouldn&#39;t read those and give their opinions as to why. Then I had another group that thought it was okay.  It wasn&#39;t until the Holy Spirit convicted me about how romance novels had become an idol in my life because I spent more time in them than with God as well as it created a false imagery in my mind as to how a man should look that I knew I had to stop.  Needless to say, I gave them all away and never looked back.  That was a permanent change because I was convicted not because I was told, or forced by rules to change but because God had shown me that, for me, this was not something beneficial.  The same goes with dress.  </p>
<p>Fourth, what works for you, may not work for me.  God created us as unique indiviuals and if you demanded me to look and act like you, I would cease to be the uinique individual God is calling me to be.  Even though we are talking about clothes it always seems to lead to other rules and regulations.  </p>
<p>Sometimes, for me, I think those of us in the church of Christ (myself included) start to look more and more like the Pharisees of Jesus&#39; day.  </p>
<p>Again, for me, I would rather create an atmosphere in which the Holy Spirit had free reign to speak one on one.  I believe with all me heart that the changes that would result would be profound and long lasting.  I also believe it would draw those &quot;outside&quot; in.</p>
<p>But then I guess that why my blog is titled, An Unlikely Perspective 2, huh?</p>
<p>Great topic, Phil!!</p>
<p>I just discovered that on the new Yahoo Beta, I can add your blog as a module, so when I check my emails, there you are!  How cool is that?! </p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5440</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5440</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;&quot;Has church become too casual?&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Yes.  &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em><strong>&quot;Has church become too casual?&quot;</strong></em></p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Yes.  </p>
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		<title>By: nathan J</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5441</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5441</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I believe that if the main push of a church is to relate to the world by being like them in clothes, music, style, etc., then it is probably based on shallow thinking than biblical thinking.  Many churches do this and they are a dime a dozen.  They focus more on appearance than on Christ.  This has and is to our detriment&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The flip side is the dress up to the t to impress.  This is another extreme.  I know that it bothers people if you don&#039;t dress up with suit and tie and nice dress, etc.  This group too focuses on appearance.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;We look at the outside while God looks at the heart.  We need to be asking ourselves, what is more important, the message or the material?  We have gotten away from simple biblical teachings with these &quot;non-offensive&quot; ways to reach the masses.  Of course, many tend to forget that the gospel is offensive.  It is also refreshing, lie, and liberating.  Isn&#039;t that why Jesus came--for us and not our appearance.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that if the main push of a church is to relate to the world by being like them in clothes, music, style, etc., then it is probably based on shallow thinking than biblical thinking.  Many churches do this and they are a dime a dozen.  They focus more on appearance than on Christ.  This has and is to our detriment</p>
<p>The flip side is the dress up to the t to impress.  This is another extreme.  I know that it bothers people if you don&#39;t dress up with suit and tie and nice dress, etc.  This group too focuses on appearance.  </p>
<p>We look at the outside while God looks at the heart.  We need to be asking ourselves, what is more important, the message or the material?  We have gotten away from simple biblical teachings with these &quot;non-offensive&quot; ways to reach the masses.  Of course, many tend to forget that the gospel is offensive.  It is also refreshing, lie, and liberating.  Isn&#39;t that why Jesus came&#8211;for us and not our appearance.</p>
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		<title>By: Tova</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5442</link>
		<dc:creator>Tova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5442</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&#160;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In an attempt to discard pretentiousness, an overtly casual attitude has become pervasive. Yet,we demonstrate respect toward natural dignitaries in our manners and appearance, how much more ought we honor God and His presence? &lt;br /&gt; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I believe what matters is not so much attire as it is attitude. But one&#039;s attitude will affect everything else. Recognition and reverence of God is a key element of an authentic spiritual experience. And a spiritual connection is what people deeply crave and perhaps define as mysterious. &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Reverence will draw the presence of God, making even a closet feel like a cathedral. But an irreverent tone will not draw in the presence of God and will leave even a state of the art sanctuary feel no more significant spiritually than the coffee house down the street. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>In an attempt to discard pretentiousness, an overtly casual attitude has become pervasive. Yet,we demonstrate respect toward natural dignitaries in our manners and appearance, how much more ought we honor God and His presence?  </p>
<p>I believe what matters is not so much attire as it is attitude. But one&#39;s attitude will affect everything else. Recognition and reverence of God is a key element of an authentic spiritual experience. And a spiritual connection is what people deeply crave and perhaps define as mysterious. </p>
<p>Reverence will draw the presence of God, making even a closet feel like a cathedral. But an irreverent tone will not draw in the presence of God and will leave even a state of the art sanctuary feel no more significant spiritually than the coffee house down the street. </p>
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		<title>By: tm</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5443</link>
		<dc:creator>tm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5443</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t have to share how I feel about this issue, I think you know where I stand from my comment on Phil&#039;s last post.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I just had to throw in an &#039;amen&#039; to Tova for the great expansion on &#039;reverence&#039;. This continues to hit the nail on the head for me.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t have to share how I feel about this issue, I think you know where I stand from my comment on Phil&#39;s last post.</p>
<p>I just had to throw in an &#39;amen&#39; to Tova for the great expansion on &#39;reverence&#39;. This continues to hit the nail on the head for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie I T Assih</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5444</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie I T Assih</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5444</guid>
		<description>Really significant points you have made Dominique. Ultimately it is to have an environment/atmosphere/place/home where we can let go of being in control and let/allow/completely surrender to the Holy Spirit&#039;s leading (He is just so gentle that&#039;s why He doesn&#039;t do anything unless we allow Him to) - and that is very hard for many of us to do because we have never truly known what it means to be free without sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really significant points you have made Dominique. Ultimately it is to have an environment/atmosphere/place/home where we can let go of being in control and let/allow/completely surrender to the Holy Spirit&#39;s leading (He is just so gentle that&#39;s why He doesn&#39;t do anything unless we allow Him to) - and that is very hard for many of us to do because we have never truly known what it means to be free without sin.</p>
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		<title>By: breaklight</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5445</link>
		<dc:creator>breaklight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5445</guid>
		<description>I guess the fact is that many of us have been influenced by someone else&#039;s definition of Who God is and therefore after coming into the Kingdom of God never really went back to know Who the King really is and how He would like to do things in our lives. &quot;Reverence will draw the presence of God, making even a closet feel like a cathedral&quot; hits the bullseye. I think at the crux of it all, churches are like families and each family is different in how they do things a point better stated by Elizabeth Conley &quot;There&#039;s a church for everyone out there. That&#039;s a good thing.&quot; When the children (mature or immature members of the church) grow up they leave and start another one maybe doing things completely different (relevant/innovative/cutting edge) or doing what they saw done in the family they left (traditional) while some retain some old features as well as progressing with the new (a diverse church) which Jesus described &quot;&quot;Therefore,&quot; He [Jesus] said to them, &quot;every student of Scripture instructed in the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who brings out of his storeroom what is new and what is old.&quot; &quot;. I quite like a church that is structured &amp; grounded enough to be able to adapt flexibly to what is out there and beyond without losing itself in the process. Hard, but it can be done and some people are doing it right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the fact is that many of us have been influenced by someone else&#8217;s definition of Who God is and therefore after coming into the Kingdom of God never really went back to know Who the King really is and how He would like to do things in our lives. &#8220;Reverence will draw the presence of God, making even a closet feel like a cathedral&#8221; hits the bullseye. I think at the crux of it all, churches are like families and each family is different in how they do things a point better stated by Elizabeth Conley &#8220;There&#8217;s a church for everyone out there. That&#8217;s a good thing.&#8221; When the children (mature or immature members of the church) grow up they leave and start another one maybe doing things completely different (relevant/innovative/cutting edge) or doing what they saw done in the family they left (traditional) while some retain some old features as well as progressing with the new (a diverse church) which Jesus described &#8220;&#8221;Therefore,&#8221; He [Jesus] said to them, &#8220;every student of Scripture instructed in the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who brings out of his storeroom what is new and what is old.&#8221; &#8220;. I quite like a church that is structured &#038; grounded enough to be able to adapt flexibly to what is out there and beyond without losing itself in the process. Hard, but it can be done and some people are doing it right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Dillon</title>
		<link>http://philcooke.com/casual_church/#comment-5446</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Dillon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://philcooke.vintom.com/casual_church#comment-5446</guid>
		<description>Who cares what people wear! All that matters is whether or not God turns up. If he does, that is what will attract people. Check out the healings, deliverance, salvation etc taking place at the Todd Bentley meeting in Florida, currently showing on GOD TV. Todd doesn&#039;t have all the bells, whistles and trappings of &quot;relgion&quot;, and young people are there in droves because of God&#039;s power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who cares what people wear! All that matters is whether or not God turns up. If he does, that is what will attract people. Check out the healings, deliverance, salvation etc taking place at the Todd Bentley meeting in Florida, currently showing on GOD TV. Todd doesn&#8217;t have all the bells, whistles and trappings of &#8220;relgion&#8221;, and young people are there in droves because of God&#8217;s power.</p>
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