Sky Angel Dust Up?

Just out of curiousity,,, what were the old rates? Perhaps they should market the change in a more appealing way. re-brand it ;-) Show the availability of SkyAngel everywhere and anywhere you go...the ability to watch their programming on your laptop: in your office, in the kitchen, in your bedroom, And now on your iPhone - in the car on a road-trip, or, on your way to school. "Hey teens, Go to a concert during your free-period"...etc. They need to sell the "Sizzle".

I too am a lifetime subscriber that just read the mailing from Sky Angel about the "death" of our lifetime subscription. I find it interesting that the end of our lifetime subscription is based on the "death" of Dominion. Didn't we invest in a lifetime of Sky Angel programing versus investing in a particular delivery method? Ever since the begining we've received our lifetime programming and communications from Sky Angel. Isn't it interesting that the new delivery method and communications are coming from Sky Angel. For all intents and purposes, Sky Angel programing has not died it's the delivery method has changed.

With our lifetime subscription investment Robert Johnson gained the capital to follow his dream. The current subscriber base Sky Angel has today was only possible because we invested. Mr. Johnson's children only have a Sky Angel company to manage because of us. How thoughtless of them to purposfully "change company names" for the express purpose of dumping us. I submit that nothing has died other than the delivery method, but that Sky Angel still lives!!!

With that being said, how should have the lifetime subscriptions been handled in lieu of the change in delivery method? We should have been given the option/opportunity to purchase the IPTV equipment in order to continue our lifetime subscription. I am comfortable and understanding of the idea that our satellite equipment was subsidized as part of our initial commitment and that the new equipment requires a new cost.

Todd

What about all of us subscribers that live in an area where Satellite IS the ONLY way to receive television? We don't have High-speed internet out here that is fast enough to handle IPTV. And, Glory Star doesn't require Internet or a monthly service fee, so why would we follow Sky Angel to IPTV?

I just received the letter of lifetime membership termination from Sky Angel. I just wrote them a Stand-UP-At-Attention letter. I am not happy. I wonder if I can post this letter here? Anyway, that's the impression that I got from Sky Angel too, that, "Oh people are supportive. Everything's fine. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." There has got to be a lot of upset people out there. I wrote a nice but stern letter saying that I'm not going down without a fight. Haha. Seriously, I told them that I didn't know that "Lifetime" meant only 5 years !! Anyway, I'll try to post here again.

January 29, 2008

Attn: Rob Johnson, CEO

Dominion Sky Angel3050 Horseshoe Dr. N, Ste 290 Naples, FL 34104-7910

To The Lifetime Member Department,

Recently, I received your letter regarding the extremely prompt termination of service to us lifetime members. It was shocking and dismaying. You led us to believe that we were going to receive a "Lifetime" of membership. The impression was made to us that satellite service was "The way to go" and "Satellite is the future".

When the SkyAngel Lifetime Membership infomercials were aired for our viewing, all we heard was "A Lifetime Of Healthy Programming." The half-hour infomercial was filled from start to finish with announcements of "Lifetime This" and "Lifetime That" that we could have if we only sent in the required hundreds of dollars, which we did.

We did not hear any mention that "Lifetime" meant 5 years. We did not hear that, "If a new technology comes along, we may abruptly terminate your lifetime membership."

All of your letters of explanations regarding your negotiations with EchoStar, etc., are not, and should not, be a concern and burden to us, the consumers, the promisees, and initial financing providers. Your offer to us was a "Lifetime" of SkyAngel programming in exchange for a large, one-lump monetary sum, which we agreed to and provided.

This shocking, and shockingly early, unexpected "SURPRISE" termination is ethically, morally and unbelievably unacceptable in anyone’s definition.

If SkyAngel is having financial and agreement difficulties, etc., that should have been mentioned to us in your infomercials. Deception is not a Christian trait. You should know this. If SkyAngel doesn’t know this, then who else will?

It must be brought to your attention that you made a verbal and visual contract with us, the end users, and it did not contain any caveats of instant one-sided contract dissolving due to SkyAngel’s future negotiation and financial hardships, etc.

SkyAngel has not returned any response to all my previous multiple methods of contact, which has been:

1) With a live SkyAngel representative,

2) Telephone Message I left,

3) Email letter I sent,

4) Physical letter I sent through the U.S. Postal Service.

This time I trust you will respond.

Please reconsider your direction and contact me with a solution that YOU will provide at no monthly cost to me, as it should be, and as you promised. You are the professional entity that has created these products and offered them -- the way you did -- to us, the consumers.

I will not be satisfied until you’ve kept your end of the bargain.

Sincerely,

Note: My letter to SkyAngel above is for viewing purposes only. It's not meant to be duplicated and sent to SkyAngl.

Thanks,

Dan

Update.

1-31-08

Mary (She wouldn’t give her last name), The Call Center Director, called me.

I told her that I hope she’s recording this conversation or something. She said that she’s writing it down. In a nut shell, this is our conversation:

She attempted to convince me to accept their Lifetime Subscriber termination policy. I said that’s not acceptable. She said Lifetime Membership was for the lifetime of the satellite. I said, "There’s nothing wrong with the satellite. It’s not destroyed. What has changed is your delivery method, and that was the decision of SkyAngel." She had nothing to say in response to that.

She wouldn’t budge, and neither would I.. I told her SkyAngel should consider their actions, that it may constitute fraud. She had nothing to say.

I asked what was her supervisor’s name. She said, "Vi". I asked for her last name. She said she can’t give that to me. I asked why doesn’t SkyAngel give out last names. She said, "A lot of businesses these days don’t give out last names."

I requested to speak to "Vi" or the President himself. She said she would give them the message.

I told her that I’m glad we both had an amicable conversation, and said, "Goodbye."

I am waiting for their call.

Update.

In this month of February, I sent an email and a letter to both Sky Angel addresses I have. I basically said that I am not agreeing with their decision to cancel my lifetime subscription, and I do not approve that action.

I said that if Dominion/Sky Angel does shut off my service, it will be a breach of contract and it may be considered fraud. I asked them to send me a communication stating that they don't intend to break their contract. I gave them a time limit to send me that statement.

This loss of membership is concerning to me. Number 1, how they state that they have sought Gods guidance through prayer. Reading through the lines of Mr. Johnsons form letter, one has to ask what guidance have they sought through God's word?

Here are some facts: In July of 06 they opened a new facility in Cleveland and hired 50 new employees. In the 3rd and 4th quarter of last year, they promoted many of their key executives.

The other concern to me is that there appears to be others who lost lifetime memberships back in 2004 and 2006. I do need to research into this more as my time allows to determine why this occurred.

At any rate, I called the toll free number. It took quite a lot of effort to get to a person. When I did they wanted me to leave my message on the comment line. After a firm but nice refusal, they elevated me to another person by the name of Sandy. Sandy stated that they could not give out the phone number of their corporate headquarters. I asked her where she was and she indicated Cleveland. She said she was very sorry she couldn't help me. I am baffled at how a any organization is barred from giving out there corporate telephone number.

At any rate, I found the corporate headquarters and got through to Rob Johnsons executive secretary and left a voice mail. For a company that cannot support its members, it is surprising to me the layers of management. I felt like I was calling a fortune 50 company.

It is morally wrong for a company to be in business and to not honor its commitments. If they went bankrupt, then they cannot legally form the same business in the same field with the same people and the same name. If they did not go bankrupt, then they cannot offer the same service under a different name. This is not legal under bankruptcy code.

It appears to me that they have not gone bankrupt, (I will verify this). Sorry but I cannot see where there needs to be much prayer and understanding here. It is about doing what is right. How can they have made all this new investment and a few short months later revoke lifetime memberships and state a technicality. If they switch technology, they should precipitate this new technology with its lifetime members. The real matter is that this is yet another Christian company going the way of the world.

If they feel they are right in there decision, why are they attempting to deter people from getting answers.

There headquarters is located in Naples, Florida and their telephone number is: 239-403-9130. Call them and tell them the truth. If I don't receive a return phone call, I will continue to elevate this until I do.

Paul Cestari is the new vice president of sales for Dominion Video Satellite Inc., Naples–based owner and operator of the Sky Angel Christian satellite television service. Cestari is responsible for building partnerships with retail outlets. He has held executive positions with Showtime Networks, the Movie Channel, Sundance Channel, and FLIX in the areas of sales, marketing, and finance.

Glenn Christopher has been appointed vice president of commercial accounts and technical support for Dominion Video Satellite Inc. Christopher has been with the company since 1996 and was vice president of sales, managed the customer service department, and developed Sky Angel's sales representative program.

Marvin Weisberg has been named vice president of information technology for Dominion Video Satellite Inc. He has more than 35 years of experience in the field. Weisberg was vice president of network administration for a large Wall Street firm, administrating a network of several thousand users.

Christian Programmer Makes Personnel Moves in Naples, Fla., and Cleveland, Tenn. By Linda Moss -- Multichannel News, 7/5/2007 Dominion Video Satellite owner and operator of the Sky Angel Christian-owned family-oriented TV service, made several promotions at its Naples, Fla., corporate headquarters and Cleveland, Tenn., operations. In Naples, Vi Avedisian, formerly vice president of customer service and strategic development, was been promoted to executive vice president of Dominion Video. In her new role, Avedisian will direct strategic business operations and oversee the implementation of sales and marketing initiatives. Alberto Hering was been promoted from Web master to manager of web development. In his new role, Hering’s duties include Web maintenance and development of Sky Angel’s Web-based projects. In Cleveland, Brian Collins was been promoted to vice president of programming and media sales. Collins is taking over programming department duties from Kathleen Johnson, who was recently promoted to president of the newly created Sky Angel Productions. Joining Sky Angel in 2005, Collins previously served as assistant vice president of media sales. Sherrod Munday was promoted to vice president of IPTV engineering with the responsibility to lead the technical development of Sky Angel’s future IPTV service. Prior to joining Sky Angel last year as a broadcast engineer, Munday served as technical director for the Salem Radio Network in Dallas and also worked for Salem Music Network in Nashville. Ken Douglas was been promoted from assistant vice president to vice president of Cleveland operations. In this role, Douglas staffs and manages Sky Angel’s main contact center and has operational responsibility for Sky Angel’s network operations center.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/pe ...

I subscribed to the IPTV service in December and after intially being told my box should ship Jan. 7, I received an email that stated they were not completed with "testing" and would ship the box when they were. I have called twice since then and got the same "standard" message read to me by the rep. that they were finishing testing. Now from reading the posts it sounds to me that they are fully operational, and I'm just waiting for a box along with a lot of other people. Does anyone have any information on this? It has now been over a month since they were supposed to ship my box. I wonder if I cancel my satellite subscription if I'll get my box any faster?

Here is what we need to do if we are going to hold them accountable.

1.) search their name on the Better Business page: http://search.bbb.org/searchform.aspx1

2.) register a complaint on the Better Business site

3.) Contact Skyangel at: 239-403-9130. Be nice but firm. A receptionist will answer the phone as this is their headquarters. Ask for Rob Johnson, (this is the president, his father founded the company) You will be transfered to someone or (if they receive enough calls) they may just rely on the receptionist to talk to you. If you have the ability, when they answer the phone record the conversation and tell them that you are doing so.

4.) State your dissatisfaction. Let them know that you will not be supporting them and that you have filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. If they try to cut you a deal, let them know that you wish them to be fair with all of their lifetime members.

5.) If we can somehow collect the email addresses of the lifetime members, I will take it upon myself to escalate this to Rob Johnson, their board of directors, their funding sources, our representatives, the FCC, and if necessary a class action suit. I know they are a Christian company but the manner in which this was death with is flat wrong. As Christians, we are called to hold those accountable.

In close, I just received my letter on February 7th. After investigating it further, I find that some members received their notices early last year. I cannot help but question why the form letter I received has no date of when it was written. Is this because they knew if they released the letters to a few regions at a time that this would go mostly unnoticed?

I also cannot sit still for all of the people that have contacted them (including me) and have never had a reply to there calls, or letters. And still the fact that the Sky Angel call center cannot release the telephone numbers for their headquarters. If you read the various responses on the post boards, everyone is being treated like this. This is not what Jesus would do this is what the worst of corporate America does. Do your own research.

Mark McKitrick

Our family is another "lifetime" subscriber that will apparently be terminated by the arbitrary business decision of this company. We supported the ministry vision of Bob Johnson from near the beginning of Sky Angel.

The decision to terminate "lifetime" subscribers would be unethical for a secular company. To couch the action in spiritual phrases while slamming those who supported the ministry vision of their founder is despicable. Perhaps they should do a brief study of Matthew 6:24.

I had been considering changing internet providers to get the speed needed to move to their IPTV option, believing that any new enhancements would occur there and not on the satellite service. After receiving their letter, there's little to no chance I'd purchase equipment to make the change, let alone send them any more money or referrals.

How is this different from Jim Bakker sellings too many rooms for life? And he got jail time for that...

I am a lifetime subscriber on Dominion SkyAngel. I was very disappointed when I received my letter late in 2007, but I also don't want to pay a monthly fee when I already paid for a lifelong subscription. After reviewing my contract/terms of the subscription, it does say for the lifetime of the subscriber/spouse "OR" the lifetime of Dominion SkyAngel.

Well, it appears Dominion SkyAngel's lifetime is coming to a close... Although many of you feel that there something to be done, I have decided it's not worth the fight and will go back to reading books and buying videos at the local christian bookstore.

It is most worth it. Truthfully, we were building our house and have not had sky angel hooked up for 2 years. I don't need their service and as a business owner, ministry leader and a family of 4, have plenty to do. If we don't hold them accountable, this will happen to your children. Christ stood up for things that are not right. If we don't, how do we bear his image? We will continue to be a declining country with a diluted religion. I will choose to stand firm and fight the good fight. If they still do nothing, at least I can say I did my best to let them know they were headed down the wrong path. If we don't let our brothers know when they are on the wrong path, we are no better in my opinion.

This can be the greatest time in America for revival. We can send emails anytime of the 24 hour day to let people and companies know when they don't hit the mark. God gave us the tools, lets not just bury the talents in the ground.

If anyone of you wants to proceed, you can email me directly at: ideyas@cha 4;ter.net

Thanks,

Mark McKitrick

Suttons Bay, Michigan

I work in media and am interested in hearing from all lifetime subscribers to Sky Angel who will not be able to afford to transition to IPTV, or who are upset with the forced transition.

Please contact me at: stagecoachjoe@yahoo.com

Thank you

Like so many others, my "lifetime" with Sky Angel was shorter than expected. When someone starts class action against these people, please count me in. They gold each of us something they failed to provide, and that is a problem. Seniot Bob Johnson, the well-liked founder, must be rolling over in hsi grave.

By the way, if you are considering signing up for the new service, please read their Custimer Agreement line by line. It is 100% slanted toward their company, without regard for the customer.

Thank you for those who have sent me your emails. I am in the process of putting together a distribution list. Firstly I will speak to Mr. Johnson and ask him to reconsider Skyangel's direction and to come up with a fair solution for their lifetime members. Hopefully this will be enough. If it is not, then there are many no cost ways to pursue that will at the very least help them to understand that this is not the way to handle their Christian based company.

Mark McKitrick

Yes, this is a breach of contract, is not legal and certainly not ethical in my opinion, and countless others. The fair solution is for them to give us free monthly service and we buy the equipment. This was the same deal as we as lifetime members agreed to. Otherwise they need to bankrupt the company, spread the assets evenly to all and start over. This is what the law would allow for and acceptable even from a Christian view, (every 7 years forgive them of their debt.) For them to continue business as usual, under the same company, the same management, trying to rename what lifetime means is not acceptable especially for a Christan company. It really makes me wonder that their management comes from many of the top premium cable providers but I will try to with hold judgement.We need to hold them accountable. Currently we are working on a site at wilkpedia. in the meantime you can email me at: ideyas@cha 4;ter.net and I will add anyone to the list that wishes to petition Mr. Johnson at Skyangel. We simply want a fair resolution. They are a member of the better business bureau. If we go to the BBB with several signed petitions there will be strength in the numbers. From there we can go to the FCC and consider a class action case. You can also check this website for more information:

Hello Joe,I am disappointed with the entire manner in which Sky Angel has conducted themselves. This disappointment can be summarized as follows;1. there listed telephone numbers (there call center) told me that they are restricted from giving out their corporate headquarters. This is also posted by others on many posting boards on the nets. 2. their receptionist trying to block my call and transfered me to an extension where I could voice my concern on a recorder. 3. Mr. Johnson's executive secretary not taking a message4. Mr. Johnson not returning my call, or directing it to anyone else in his organization5. How they cut off their lifetime members systematically region by region in an attempt to lessen the blow, with a non dated letter6. How they expanded a huge call center in 2006 and 2007, while the cut offs were taking place7. How they gave substantial increases and promotions to its staffers, many of which are from some of the top cable pay channels in 2007, concurrent with cutting off its lifetime members8. What there definition of "lifetime member" means. 9. How they have cut off all lifetime members while still operating under the same name, corporate location, and business as usual, and I quote, "please understand". 10. How many other companies are offering free, over the internet service while Sky Angel encourages lifetime members to buy a new monthly service. The internet is an inexpensive way to distribute television. At the least Sky Angel should give its lifetime members the same service with the new technology and refund on a prorated basis those that cannot employ the new technology. It is wrong to maintain a company whose assets were largely arrived through the promotion of lifetime members, (on the net this figure is at 100,000 members, multiply this by about $300.00 each and you get $30,000,000.00). This in my opinion is the same as selling stock in a company, building the company with the shareholders money, and then telling the shareholders that their shares are worthless. For Sky Angel to keep lifetime members assets is not right, ethical, or in my opinion legal.These 10 reasons do not sound like an angel to me, and to many others. I also do not believe that this was in line with the mission of the founder of Sky Angel. Mr. Johnson needs to simply be fair and change his course. Consider this a rebuke.Mark McKitrick

Look everybody,

you can complain about everything but the fact of the matter is if you want the christian programming then subscribe to their service and if not then dont. I can see everyones viewpoint but if litigate the socks off the company then what does that leave me to watch if I want that kind of programming in my house. To me it sounds like people being greedy. You paid for your lifetime service and the lifetime of the satellite ends April 1st. Like I said I understand your side as well but try to think about everyone else that this programming is now reaching. I am just now hearing about SkyAngel and was excited until I started readig all of the posts in the forums. Now I am not so sure that I want anything to do with the company and frankly I dont know if being a christian is better than anything else if this is the way that christians act.

I understand Phil Cooke Productions is producing a project for Sky Angel. Is that true?

Simply put: If Sky Angel wanted to honor their Lifetime Subscribers, they would make efforts to do so. Period. They claim so many Christian values, but it looks like they're following values of secular businesses in the past that tried to pull the rug out from underneith their customers -- who helped the company grow, mind you.

I recently learned about this shameful representation of a "Christian values" organization and it was in fact remiscent of other failures in the body of Christ.

To all those desirous of starting a business and shouting from the housetops that you're a follower of Jesus - STOP!!! Ensure your house is in order. Ensure your plan is sound; seek wise counsel!!! This is indeed a sad failure on the part of Dominion...a servant organization is their calling yet they seem to be now only serving their own interests. Is there demand, Yes! Is demand alone reason enough to continue on all the while abandoning those who provided your foundational resources/startup monies, NO!

Mark M - I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion regarding immediate entity dissolution and asset distribution [amongst lifetime subscribers]; and yes sir, if it requires civil action then consider me a civil servant.

Whilest I'm in a position to "afford" the new product and in an area supportive of techologies capable of delivery bandwidth requirements, I'm not going to support paying twice. I would much prefer class-action activities to force my so-called "brethren" out of the sheep pen and into the court system...and let's pull away the coat and see for ourselves what's underneath!!! Could it be a sheepskin cash-belt!!!

I called the Napel offices today and was of course held at arm's length with offers to leave (another) message. After courteously pressing for a real person, I'm told there's a lady out of the office today (convenient, heh?) who in fact does return calls (blah blah blah) and I received assurances I would be contacted tomorrow.

If I may opine further regarding on post concerning Dominion proposing deals to those who may have been more assertive than most callers - No matter how they carve their "spin", it would be shameful to offer those who speak loudest some kind of life-time deal (A SECOND TIME) and yet it is not offered across the board...you may get away with it on earth, but woe to the man who offends!!! I would be better for you to find yourselves a mill-stone and a lake than face off with El Elyon!!!!

I can hear the impending legal calls to Naples Florida -->>>> Dominion - Come out, Come out, WHEREVER you are!!!

Thank you, Colorado !!

As a lifetime member about to be dropped I am in a pickle. I will be forced to do business with Dish Network to continue any sort of non-local TV. High Speed Internet is not readily available in my area execept by satellite (Very Rural) I refuse to spend that money. I feel definately left on the side of the road.

I will be glad to be included.

So let me get this straight Colorado - you're suggesting that because you and others apparently misunderstood the contract you signed that a "lifetime subscription" was for the life of the equipment, you want the company to dissolve and give their assets to you and other subscribers? This may be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Any way you cut it, you've gotten your money's worth. I've been a subscriber so I've seen the fee structure and lifetime subscribers have still gotten a great deal compared to other services. Get real buddy, and wake up to the truth. Change happens, and it's not a "Christian" issue for a company to be faced with the huge challenge they faced from EchoStar III. They made a sound business decision, and I would have made the same choice. I bet you would have too.

Hello Carl,

This is not about a misunderstanding of a contract signed. If you read all the post, lifetime members are mostly dissatisfied with the manner is which this has been handled. This includes, non response to telephone calls, how the termination of service was handled, etc. lifetime implies more than a few years. If you look at the facts and investigate it, the truth is apparent. Instead of lifetime members, maybe, "venture capital" would have been better.

It is wrong to maintain a company whose assets were largely arrivedthrough the promotion of lifetime members, This in my opinion is the same asselling stock in a company, building the company with the shareholdersmoney, and then telling the shareholders that their shares areworthless. For Sky Angel to keep lifetime members assets is not right,ethical, or in my opinion legal". - Mark McKitrick lifetime member

In my opinion the fair way for Skyangel to handle this would be for them to contact their lifetime members and work out a fair solution with all members. That is, give everyone the same fair resolve.

I am thankful for all the members that contacted me. My whole involvement was simply out of holding Skyangel accountable for the manner in which they chose to deal with all lifetime members. The facts speak for themselves.

We are to hold our brothers accountable when they fail to hit the mark, with "a strong rebuke".(we all fall short, this is sin and this is why Christ died on the cross). If we don't hold Christians accountable, then Christianity continues to be diluted. The yeast works further into the dough.

I think all lifetime members would practice forgiveness, if there were repentance. I have not yet seen this spirit, and even the manner is which this settlement comes, is not in my opinion the way Skyangel should resolve this matter. Lord willing, they will have a change of heart.

So,you have a choice. Become involved in a settlement and hope this will at least send them a message, or forget about it. If you want to email me, you may at: ideyas@cha 4;ter.net

Here is what you need to do if you want to be involved with a settlement:

Mark - pardon me, but although I hope you don't mean it, you sound a bit like an arrogant, self-righteous jerk here. You've become what appears to be a self-appointed "cop" to take Sky Angel to the cleaners - even though you admit the contract was correct, and at worst, they should have handled it differently. For the "mistake" of - in your own opinion - communicating poorly with their customers, you are trying to put the first Christian IPTV network out of business. Let me repeat that - it's the first attempt to aggregate all the major Christian radio and TV channels into the digital media space. In other words, you'd personally stop what appears to be the most cutting edge project for the gospel on the planet, just because you feel that you've "been wronged?" So let's leave the Internet to the porn producers, and walk away. Thanks Mark - you've filled this blog with arrogant posts, that do nothing but indicate that you seem to be a bitter, angry person. I'm a lifetime member as well, and though I can't get high speed access and will lose the service, I say "Go for it Sky Angel." Get the gospel out there on the web. The world needs it far more than self-righteous Pharisees need to get a settlement.

I remind you all that my take is here: http://www.philcooke.com/Sky_Angel_Response

Mark - it seems all your posturing is for naught. As Phil has posted here:

http://www.philcooke.com/Dish_failure

the only alternative that would have kept Sky Angel in broadcast service burned up last night when it failed it make it's orbit. Sky Angel would have lost vast amounts of money had it stayed as a broadcast medium. So let's all get behind what Harry has correctly stated is the most cutting edge service on the planet. Multiple religious channels all on one IPTV service. Thank God the Kingdom continues to be preached as new technology moves forward, despite the naysayers and critics! Now Mark - go somewhere and get a life buddy...

I am a life time member. When they took Southern Gospel Music off a few years back I knew we were in trouble. Then they come up with the hallmark channels. Then MASH!! You call that Christian programming? Give me a break!!!!!! And all that paid programming. I get all that on my Dish. The programming stinks. I can not afford the transition to IPTV. I agree with Mark McKitrick another Christian company going the way of the world. All this paid programming is Secular businesses. $$$$$$ The reason we brought into Sky Angle was to get away from that stuff. And to have the gospel and things of the Lord coming into our home. So sad that MONEY got in the way of their thinking.

All I have gotten from sky angel CS are outright lies :(

Some of the better ones......

1-"lifetime members" were given "notice" on their "monthly statements" regarding the cancellation of lifetime memberships since "June 2007".

I for one haven't received a statement , a letter or any communitcation from sky angel until they wrote attempted to charge us a $5 "special fee"

2-"lifetime members" were mailed "updated terms of service, yearly".

Again , no communication for 10+ years

Furthermore I have repeatedly asked to be shown what/where I signed giving sky angel the right to disconnect my lifetime membership. They refuse to provide such documentation as there is none!

My membership was for MY LIFETIME and/or that of my spouse!

A look at one of the old infomercials would clearly show the truth. All you had to do was call, give them a credit card # and you were supposed to get a lifetime of sky angel with any new channels added at no extra charge!

Finally sky angel breached the lifetime agreement by not launching a new satellite by 2002. Sky angel is taking advantage of Christians by hoping that many will choose to not sue.

Next time you call CS ask them how they can sleep at night knowing they are assisting sky angel in being dishonest!

again call:

There headquarters is located in Naples, Florida and their telephone number is: 239-403-9130. Call them and tell them the truth. If you don't receive a return phone call, continue to call DAILY until you do.

Even if they give us IPTV service, there are those who can not use it do to lack of high speed internet. To say it is the "same price", its not when you figure in new equipment and DSL! So what sort of compensation do those members deserve?

I just love how those who refused sky angels plea for funds now want to bash those who did support them. There would be no IPTV if not for the lifetime members sky angel is casting aside!

Also take a long look at the short lifespan of IPTV canada! More important look how sky angel handled the issue...............

Skyangel needs to focus on the facts instead of justification of its monetary decision making. The truth is always there if we look. This is taken directly from their cut off letter:"EchoStar III had considerable problems and that it was unlikely to reach its originally planned lifetime," and further, "despite our best efforts, we were unable to negotiate a new agreement". Due to their there inability to negotiate, defined what the lifetime membership came to be, and in fact did not reach the original planned lifetime.To me it really doesn't matter (these quotes taken from the blogs) if they are good people, feel bad, are beaming the gospel, have a new technology they embrace called IPTV, didn't have the money, aren't getting rich, that Cooke picture is making their commercial, media is changing, etc. The facts are the facts and the truth is beneath the chaos.Any amount of settlement will not reimburse anyone with vast amounts of money. It simply keeps Skyangel from getting into a class action suit and is a slight slap on the wrist. My hope was that shedding light on this would impel Skyangel to do something for its lifetime members, even if this would be to take our calls when we contact them and to show a concern for its member base. Instead, we have to collect the lifetime members names for a settlement. I am sure that Skyangel has a list of all its lifetime members. So why do we have to come up with the names, when they have all of the lifetime members? Simple, MONEY. The less people that don't submit there names, the less they pay. I don't want them to be selling lifetime IPTV memberships to my children, and I really don't want them beaming Christ.

".... I really don't want them beaming Christ."

I've kept out of this thread and others like it because I'm not a Sky Angel subscriber and I'm not familiar enough with the situation to form a strong opinion.

It appears to me there are strong emotions circling around the whole situation and some misunderstanding as to what the commitment was. That is one thing.

When I see a comment such as yours however and the final words quoted above, I can't help but think you've gotten your priorities out of balance in this regard.

At the very least it appears that Sky Angel has a core group of subscribers who are very angry about the changes being instituted and who feel that they are not being communicated with effectively or respectfully.

At the risk of getting in deeper than I have a right to, as I've mentioned before that I'm not a subscriber, but because I'm in the midst of a Masters course on corporate communications and this appears to be a contemporary case study I'd ask the following:

1. How many Sky Angel subscibers under the old technology actually perceive that Sky Angel is legally in the narrow sense or ethically in the broader sense violating their agreement with their "Lifetime Members"? I've done a little googling on the matter and frankly, I can't find much out there about it. Say what you want about Phil's involvement in this regard but he appears to be the major site right now that is allowing for the expression of frustration and outrage from those with something to say.

2. What is the effective cost of the initial investment spread over the service received for the average subscriber? How does this compare to service received from competitors and has there been real value that has been experienced in that regard?

3. What is Sky Angel doing now to effectively communicate to its consituency in multiple mediums to manage the perception problem that appears to exist if those here expressing outrage or dissatisfaction are representative of a significant portion of their former and'or current clients and presumably a portion of their perspective client base in the future?

4. Was the use of the term "Lifetime Subscriber" in the past misused or the disclaimer in terms of equipment lifetime not properly explained or highlighted in the communications done then, or is this a matter of people choosing to hear what they wanted to hear?

It seems to me that were I more directly involved with this situation as either management of Sky Angel or in Phil's role in helping to work through the current problems, I'd be wanting to have clear answers to these questions, and some means to get them across in as neutral and non-combative a way as possible.

The problem with mass mailed letters, it that a lot of people don't read them or if they do they scan them quickly and don't digest them. At the very least, it appears to me based on what I've observed here so far, that even putting the most positive light on what Sky Angel has done and why they have done it, that their communications have opened the door for some outrage and response that may have been avoided or diffused with a better communication strategy.

Maybe recognizing that and addressing that from a conciliatory point of view could be a key to mollifying some now that feel that they've been mistreated even if the basis of their complaint isn't entirely valid.

I have to believe Sky Angel knows that and that that is why Phil is now involved.

I hope it works out well for all involved and that a viable means of media transmission that serves the Christian Community and spreads the Gospel is not silenced or damaged unecessarily by this.

My last word on the issue: http://www.philcooke.com/Sky_Angel_Last_Word

I want Christ's word to spread by Christian companies that lead by example. It is never too late to take the lead and be one that resembles a servant more than a corporation. Corporations make decisions based on money, servants make decisions based on people. You can call me anything you wish, after all a servant is no greater than its master. I know the truth and it sets me free. And Phil, I will look my Lord in the eyes. I will hear, well done good and faithful servant. Because I will stand up for the people such as this;I'm 73 live entirely on SS. I could hardly afford the lifetime membership.I've called them and asked if they couldn't give us life time memberships a better deal, since we helped themwhen they needed us. Their reply was they couldn'tI told them I live totally on SS and have dial up, now I'll have to get DSL at $25.00 monthly and the cheapest skyangelat $14.99 month which is just under $40.00 which I can't afford, So I must go to local TV only.I feel they could give some help/relief. Most Christian organizations would offer something.In my opinion from reading blogs everywhere on the net, the initial and further rationalization of this manner is a direct correlation with the reason for the escalation.

I just read the comment by mark mckitrick on March 26, 2008, in his post he included a post I had written to him, (he has my permission to use it.) I'm the 73 year old person that is living on SS.

I would like to add that further expense was that I also paid $300.00 for the receiver and related equipment. All I have asked from Sky Angel is for some relief or help with the new service. I've called them a number of times, registered my concern, and was told no help is available.

I know change is going to happen regardless, I't don't matter if I like it or not. I would still like to sign up for the new service, I just can't afford it.

As and altrenative I've signed up for Dish's family package for $19.99, so I'll save the DSL charges of $25.00-$35.00 charge. Dish's package has a few faith based channels, and a better selection than local TV.

I stll may get Sky Angel later this year, as my house will be paid for and I'll be better able to affore it.

I am more dismayed that a blogger call us life'ers that we were Christain Idiot's. I totaly disagree that I am a Christian Idiot. I've been a born again beleiver (Christian) for 63 years, which make me a completed person in God's sight. Christ didn't die for me to make me an idiot. I'm still human and should be alowed to voice my concerns and even my complaints. He comdems me not!

"In His Grip"

DAVE

Mark: I haven't been a Christian for 63 years and admit I'm a fairly young Christian and not a life time subscriber but have been taken back by the hate expressed in your blogs. It is quite apparent that this is no longer about the Christian thing to do, that is obvious to even this young Christian...Christians are taught that God wants us to forgive and love. In this approach, the world can clearly see God working in us. If this was about starving children or abortion, I could understand. This is clearly about you, Mark, and it is obvious that you have made this a personal crusade against Sky Angel. It is really troubling to me that you are a paster. God has given you a special mission but I don't believe he has made you His enforcer, particularly against a Christian organization. I think God is more than capable of judging Sky Angel. I think we could all benefit from a good reading of Corinthians 13. The Great Deceiver uses even believers at times to do his work. I hope you will consider the great harm you are doing to this work and to others who may someday find Jesus thru this service. I'm not saying what that the way they handled this was right, I don't know all the facts and will reserve my opinion on that. What I am saying Mark is that you are clearly wrong by the way you have handled this. Two wrongs never make a right and getting even will bring you no great joy. I will pray for you and for Sky Angel. My prayer is that God will be honored in whatever happens.

I can tell from some commentary that some are unaware of the content of the original lifetime agreement with Sky Angel. Sky Angel stated to the effect that surplus transponders on Echostar III were leased in order to expedite the availability of service and that a backup satellite was under contract for an approximate 2002 launch. The projected lifetime of Echostar III was 12 to 14 years and it is still alive or it wouldn't still be transmitting. I was assigned a permanent sponsor number so apparently I am still a sponsor, though apparently a disenfranchised one until Sky Angel wakes up and decides to offer me free IPTV. As for the lifetime issue it was for the operating lifetime of the Dominion Sky Angel U.S. DBS service (with no mention of selling, bartering or giving away the licensed frequencies) and for the lifetime of the subscriber and his or her spouse. All the publicity hype seems to be that Sky Angel is alive and well with but a change of medium. Also note that the satellite is not yet dead or Sky Angel would not have had to file with the FCC requesting a transfer of the licensed frequencies to Echostar. So from a legal standpoint the satellite is still alive and I am still alive and only Sky Angel's choice of medium is at issue.

Back By Popular Demand!

• For a limited time only, Sky Angel is offering the absolute best in Christ-centered and family-friendly programming for life! Get all 32 TV and radio channels plus one no-cost bonus channel, for just $399 * and never pay another monthly fee again.Whether you are already a subscriber or thinking about it, the time to act is NOW!• Get Hundreds of Ministry, Teaching & Inspirational Programs• Three Christian Music Video Channels• 24-hour Christian Kids and Teens TV & Radio Channels• Family Programs, Classic Sitcoms & Movies• News and Talk Shows from a Christian Perspective• Home Life, Sports Programs & Outdoor Shows• Exclusive Live & Special Events from Around the WorldConnect with other believers and support the world’s only Christian satellite service by becoming a lifelong subscriber today!This offer expires on January 31, 2001* If paid in full; $450 if paid in installments (receiving equipment extra).

This is from skyangel.com as it is recorded on 2/03/2001. It is stated below: The Dominion DBS Television System has a contract for air time for the life of the EchoStar III DBS satellite (10-12 years). So, add 2/03/2001, plus the 10 years and what do you have. 2011 to 2013 is when the contract was to expire.

7. Who owns the Dominion DBS Television & Radio System?

On July 11, 1981, Dominion Video Satellite, Inc. was incorporated in the State of Florida as a regular commercially chartered for-profit corporation. Authorized common stock consists of 80 million shares of which 40 million are Class "B" and 40 million are Class "A."Robert Johnson, chairman and chief executive officer of Dominion Video Satellite, Inc., is the founder, incorporator, and he and his wife Jeanine have been the primary financial backers of the company. Robert and Jeanine own all of the shares of Class "B" common stock which has a controlling voting interest.Dominion Video Satellite, Inc. also has several minority shareholders owning common stock who have provided significant financial assistance and who are committed to the Christian purposes of the company.The Dominion DBS Television System has a contract for air time for the life of the EchoStar III DBS satellite (10-12 years). Long before the end of the EchoStar III DBS satellite life, Dominion will have launched its own DBS satellite "DVS-1" and will continue domestic U.S. as well as international DBS service on its owned and operated satellite after the life of the EchoStar III DBS satellite ends.

Hello everybody. I'm one of the first posters on this blog. Let me give you all a fresh perspective. I wonder what Sky Angel -- and anyone else, for that matter -- thinks when they read this blog and see people at each other's throats. We can go on and on arguing forever.

The fact of the matter is clear: Sky Angel painted a beautiful picture 6 or so years ago. They ingrained into our heads, "LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP. Hooray!!! Just send us $399.00 and you're set.

Now, their tune has changed. I can't believe that if they give us lifers IPTV at a minimal ongoing cost to them, that it will break and destroy them. Are they really running on a shoestring budget? Are they really living month-to-month personally?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: They can afford to keep their promise to us if they wanted to. The small amount of money they would be losing would be offset by the POTENTIALLY HUGE profit they stand to make in the future.

Is it possible that they may have dollar signs in their eyes? Is it just possible?

PS. I don't want any response to this post. I just want you all to think about this.

Nancy.Christopher@SkyAngel dot com

Is no longer valid. Has it been deleted in order to not hear any more from us Lifetime Subscribers?

Sky angels non dated cut off letter states, THIS IS AN EXACT QUOTE:

"the operating lifetime of the dominion sky angel domestic U.S. dbs service, or for the lifetime of the subscriber or spouse.

Sky angels website as of 2/03/2001 THIS IS AN EXACT QUOTE:

7."The Dominion DBS Television System has a contract for air time for the life of the EchoStar III DBS satellite (10-12 years). Long before the end of the EchoStar III DBS satellite life, Dominion will have launched its own DBS satellite "DVS-1" and will continue domestic U.S. as well as international DBS service on its owned and operated satellite after the life of the EchoStar III DBS satellite ends."

http://web.archive.org/web/20000817161203/www.skyangel.com/P ...

The truth pretty well puts this right in light doesn't it Phil. Lifetime members were mislead, and not even given the time of day when they called.

I hope that Sky angel can now see and remember what they were selling.

As a ripped-off shortened-lifetime subscriber, I would agree to pay the monthly charge. Perhaps SA could provide equipment to lifetime people as a concession.

I do have a problem with signing their contract as it appears on the web site. Most items start "You will" and there are few "We will" statement. For example, the contract term is now 18 months, but SA has the right to raise rates. If the monthly fee tripled, and I wanted to opt out within 18 months, there is a $200 penalty. By their agreement, just before SA goes under, which they will, they could be transmitting only one or two clannels at $75 a month, and susscribers would have to pay the charge or the penalty. The contract is all one-sided legaleze. BY the way, the aAgreement states they do not extend credit. Payment is by credit or debit card, so they could take the $200 penalty and wave another agreement in the subscriber's face.

My second issue is with a non-profit arm of Sky Angel we contributed to, in appreciation of our lifetime deal. I do no recall the name, but will dig it out. How wee those non-profit funds used. How was that Corporation dissolved.

If it looks like a skunk, and smells like a skunk, must be a Skunk. Looks like we are discussing Skunk Angel because something smells wrong here.

Wait until Sister Sara in Seattle or Brother Bob in Buffalo wake up on April 1 and find snow on their screens. Sky Angel has been their only TV source and they do not even own computers and are clueless about the change. Woo Hoo! If you work in the SA call center, April 1 might be a good day to call in sick.

The truth is, the blog is filling up and we have to close off the discussion thread. Some people are going to choose to be angry and bitter because they think Sky Angel owes them - even though there's no evidence of that. Others are thrilled the gospel can continue to be broadcast through new technology. Life happens. My car breaks down, my plumbing goes out, and my TV breaks. But I don't blame people - that's the way life works. Ultimately you can choose to be bitter and let that anger eat at you, or you can choose to explore new technology, find alternatives, or adjust your lifestyle to the new reality. Whatever you choose, I hope you enjoy it.